Blake

My guest today is Blake Boles, director of Unschool Adventures and Zero-Tuition College, staff at Not Back to School Camp, author of College Without High School and working on the not-yet-published (you can help with this part!) book Better Than College.

I can tell you this: anyone interested in how small people can turn into happy productive large people, without going to school, will love hearing about what Blake is up to.  (I’m sayin’!)

And anyone who wants to help Blake with the things that he is up to can send a bit of money here – and guarantee an early copy of his new book to boot!

I have to ask: what’s not to love about any of this? That’s right, nothing.

Chris drove us all the way from Austin to Silver City. We like him.

And while we’re on the topic of generous, cheerful and adorable 20-something men, our musical treat of the day comes to us from Chris’s band – The World Is Not Flat.  Chris (and his friend Spencer) helped Nikiah and I cover about 1000 miles of our last adventure, and along the way made a hand-decorated cover for his new CD.  Ah, the joys of craigslist rideshare!

Again… what’s not to love?

Keep up the good work y’all.
Amy

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I can attest that all of this is true (that her four children are fascinating, that they trust her, and that Kara has had to humble herself gallingly in order for this to be the case).

There is hardly a parent I’ve ever known who wouldn’t be wise to learn from her example.  (I mean, if you want to learn from your kids and heal yourself, that is.  And I know all too well that many don’t.)

Thanks Kara, for being honest and real, as always.  And thanks Devon Sproule for sharing your music with us again, this time with the tune Healthy Parents, Happy Couple.

Among the most agonizing kinds of growth that I’ve had to do, in facing up to who I am and what’s inside of me, is in relation to my kids. There’s such a strong desire to do well by them, such a strong desire for them to love and respect me. But the deep, real, person-to-person kind of love and respect happened only from intense honesty, willingness to look over and over at my words and actions, and willingness to see myself through their eyes and their experience. Almost nothing in my life has been more humbling and difficult and slow and rewarding.
- Kara Tennis

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We aren’t confident that we answered these questions with any success whatsoever.  But if you listen all the way to the end you’ll get to hear a really goofy song by Fred Van Vactor – a reward for your patience.

(Or, you can just skip to the end.)

Better luck next time,
Amy

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And I really hate it.

So I called Kara up to rant about it, and (if you have the stomach for it) you can listen to bits of my tirade here.

But first you’ll hear a little bit about my own regrets, mistakes, grief and sorrow… so in case you didn’t know it already- it’s not like I think I’m so perfect or anything. ‘Cause I sure ain’t.

And then at the end Anders Hyatt reminds us to “be honest, if you can….”

Which seems like a really good place to start.

xoAmy

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After an important discussion about wrinkles, the conversation turned to more frivolous things like the one thing that all people can (and I wish they would, repeatedly) say to their parents: “It’s not my job to make you feel better.”

And other things.

And then I play a song by Tom Chapin that always, always, always makes me cry.

Goodnightiloveyouseeyouinthemorning,
Amy

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In today’s conversation Daniel talks about what motivates people to grow, the evolution of humanity, what parents can do when they see their mistakes, and why he might sound upset when he’s in a car careering toward a cliff.

Although Daniel and I don’t always see or articulate things in the same way, I am so grateful for the courageous work he has done and continues to do – not only for himself, but for the planet, for the world’s children and for the child inside each one of us.

I also want to take a moment to thank all of you who’ve listened to all 16 episodes of this Season Six.  I commend you for taking the time to hear, think, talk and breathe about so many painful and challenging ideas.  I’m pretty sure it hasn’t always been easy for any of us.

I don’t usually know what the point of this podcast is, but I sometimes have a bit of hope that it might somehow help the world come closer to being a safe, nurturing and supportive place in which human beings can thrive.  I don’t know how these things work, but I s’pose a girl can always dream.   Thanks for being a part of that journey.

Amy

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Perhaps the most concise answer would be “I wouldn’t use the word ‘should’.”

Regardless of whether I agree or disagree with Daniel’s opinions or approach (or use of the words “should” and “shouldn’t”), I still feel that the heart of his message is very important and far too rare.

And I continue to be grateful for his perspective, passion and courage.

Plume Giant – a “retro folk trio with no frontman, just guitar, violin, viola, and three voices” gives us our musical treat today, which is lucky for us.

xoAmy

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There was one thing that Daniel said today that I found not only humorous but also I think it’s a clue about the “gap” I’ve been exploring lately, and possibly a clue about many other things as well.  When I said to Daniel something like “Your website isn’t really addressed for parents,” he replied “Well it could be argued that my website isn’t really addressed for anyone…” to which I replied “lol” and also “oh!”

If you want to read Daniel’s critique of Alice Miller, just click on this friendly little link here and voila! (Ain’t that internet an amazement??)

So now it’s time for us to all be patient while Amy and Daniel figure out when they can find some time to skype and record the last four episodes of Season Six.

If you live in the northern hemisphere, I imagine you’ll be able to find some beautiful springy something or other to help you while the time away…. well, that’s what I’ll be doing anyway.

xoAmy

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I feel really proud of anyone who is willing to listen to Daniel talk about these things, and am proud that I have a podcast that attracts listeners who are up to such a deep and personal challenge.  Thanks for all your thoughtful comments; I hope you’ll keep sharing your thoughts and experiences with me and with each other along the way.

I’m not sure if all this “makes the world a better place” or if it just “makes the world a better place for me.”  But either way, I’m happier because of you – so thanks for that.

xoAmy

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Okay, are we all doing a good job with our deep breathing?  Good, good.

Daniel Mackler has a message that (I think) is very important. It’s also a very painful one to hear. If you’re a parent (or a parent wannabe) and you’re willing to listen to what he has to say, you’re more humble and courageous than most, and I thank you.

All of Season Six (16 episodes) is dedicated to Daniel’s views about truth, the true self, trauma, healing and growing up. If you want to learn how this could become a truly healed and happy world, I hope you’ll listen carefully, breathe deeply, and find out what your own inner self has to say about it all.

In Season Six I’m playing  Daniel’s music.  In today’s song he sings:

I see parents having kids and then they break their little hearts,
They crush their perfect lives before they get a chance to start.
But still I know there’s hope because I see it in my sight,
That’s why I’ve come to spread the message
that it’s time to set things right.

When I heard Daniel’s vision for the world, it was the first time – ever – that I had a glimmer that maybe… maybe… there was something good about having hope.   I must admit I’m still awfully wary of the concept – but I’m open to changing my mind.  And if I do, you guys will be among the very first to know.  I’ll keep you posted.

xoAmy

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Meryl and I have known each other since 5th grade and have had many (MANY) good times together since then.

<pause as I stare off dreamily remembering so many good times…>

Not to mention Meryl’s grandmother and my great-grandmother were cousins.  Pretty sweet.

But so anyway! Today Meryl asked me about really trusting children, watching TV, how to help kids with their feelings and what to do about siblings who bug each other.

Devon Sproule (who I called a “Philly favorite” because everyone in Philly loves her – but she lives in Virginia) graces us with the closing number today, Stop By Anytime.

So, that’s a big “ta da” for Season 5, wonder what we’ll come up with next?…..

‘Till then – xoAmy

Meryl's Grandmother and Amy's Great-Grandmother

Amy and Meryl and other 7th grade girls at the mountains

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Later I broke the season 5 rules, and asked Kayla if she’d be willing to say some words about my strengths and weaknesses as a mom, and she was, and she did.

And in case you were wondering, Alexandra Day’s new album Untangle is ready for you to buy it!

I think this was taken about 10 years ago

Breathing in and out,

xoAmy

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It was when I got a text from Nicole Martin that asked “Were you always the way you are?” that the idea for Season 5 was born.  Although I did my best to answer her questions (like “What were you like when you were tiny?”) I’m not sure if I really got to her main question, of how I got to be “this way.”  Oh well, we had fun anyway (y’know, that laughing/crying sort of fun….)

Nicole's food makes every day a special day

On Nikiah’s 17th birthday Kayla’s camera took some crazy pictures. This is kind of what my kitchen is like when Nicole is around, a colorful surprising chaotic beauty.

let the good times roll

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Michelle and Reb come with an impressive list of accomplishments and experiences, including things such as: teaching English, Spanish and Constitutional Law in a variety of high school settings; teaching English as a second language overseas; working for both Temple and Penn in the Education Departments; working for the city of Philadelphia and in a non-profit teaching and advocating for children; working for Sudbury Schools in California and Maryland; and being the parents of two adorable little ones.

From the Sudbury Valley website:
“Trust and respect are the keys to the school’s success. Students enjoy total intellectual freedom, and unfettered interaction with other students and adults. Through being responsible for themselves and for the school’s operation, they gain the internal resources needed to lead effective lives.”

So that’s pretty cool.

And now it’s time for a holiday commercial: If you’re looking for a great gift idea for the music and freedom lovers in your life, what about a copy of Free To Be You And Me?  Let’s show the world that the idealism of the 70′s is still goin’ strong!

Amy

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Anyway, the reason (it turned out) that they didn’t want to rush it was that they realized it was going to take some time to gather and compile all the important works and quotes into the bible of their dreams.  So far, they have identified the following as key elements of their bible:

- Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy,
- Search for Signs of Intelligent Life in the Universe,
- things by Pema Chodron,

and – Parenting for a Peaceful World by Robin Grille.

All that is to say that for me today, it was kinda like I was interviewing Moses.

Here are all the links we mentioned in the show:

Robin Grille’s website

Robin Grille’s blog

If you want to find out more about being an activist for young people’s rights, look here, here and here.

And Robin wants everyone to know about Paul Hawken and his book Blessed Unrest – so check it out! (‘Cause Moses said so.  And also because it is pretty cool…)

Alexandra (oops I called her Alex on the show) Day sent me the tune that you’ll hear today.  Thank you Alexandra!

And thank you again to Robin Grille for taking the time to write a great book AND talk to me on my show.  A super lucky combination for us all.

xoAmy

PS – For those who prefer it, here is the link for Parenting For a Peaceful World on Kindle.

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I do think this sticky business is in fact part of a parent’s job, and how well we do the job undoubtedly influences whether we’ll be lucky enough to get to hang out now and then with our kids once they don’t need us anymore.

Thanks Jim Boggia for reminding us of the possibility that “There’s Nothing Wrong With Me.”

(And also for the part that goes “Whoop de do!” I like that.)

Amy

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I’ve relied on Sandra Dodd‘s enormous “prairie dog village” of a website in my own unschooling journey, and have referred dozens if not hundreds of people to check it out as well.  Since it (both unschooling, and the website!) can be overwhelming at first, new unschoolers are recommended to start here or here.   If you want to talk live with other unschoolers  you can join Sandra’s online chats; if you want a regular hello from Sandra you can subscribe to her daily message at Just Add Light and Stir; and if you want something made of paper that you can carry in your purse with you at all times, you could buy one of her books: Moving a Puddle or The Big Book of Unschooling.

And as Sandra mentioned in her interview, Joyce Fetteroll’s website Joyfully Rejoycing is another must-read for every new (or old! or wannabe!) unschooler.

If 20 minutes of Sandra is only enough to whet your appetite, you can click here   to listen to a 40 minute version of the interview, or click here to download the MP3.

And finally, don’t miss Ryan Tennis’s Album Release Party at Yards Brewing Company on October 23rd – good music, good friends, good beer, good times.

xoAmy

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So I posted his essay “Eleven Situations in Which it Is Not Appropriate for You to Have Kids” on facebook and asked him if he would talk with me on my show.  He cheerfully agreed.

Even though we talked for well over an hour, by the end I felt that we’d hardly begun.  If you want to hear more of our conversation than this half-hour episode allows, click here to download the MP3 or listen here   to hear a longer version.  But like I said – if you ask me, even an hour is just the tip of the iceberg.

After admitting that I do think that bringing three precious people into this insane world (and to be raised by insane parents) was a kind of criminal act on my part, playing Bar Scott‘s “Confession” seemed an appropriate way to wrap up the show.  And then I lay down on my bed to breathe for a good long time.

Forgive me children, for I knew not what I did… or something like that.

Peace and love,

Amy

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The song that popped into my mind to play at the end of the episode is by Bar Scott (written long before she became a mother), and not until after I’d gotten it firmly stuck in my head did I remember that her son Forrest died before he turned four.  Since then it’s been a weepy evening, but worth it.

Amy

A Mother’s Legacy

Listen, my son
Your life is all that I can give
If I could, I’d teach you all that I have learned
Go and err
And know my love 

Know my love is in your heart

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I have a child with someone and we want to raise her/him together in partnership… but, we aren’t in love with each other.  Is this possible?  If so, how?

The answer:

Listen to this podcast and find out.

(So simple…  or maybe … Not.)

~Amy

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So go give some money to PBS and hopefully that will make up for any copyright laws I may have inadvertently broken.

But I just love Mister Rogers, and I want you to love him too.  So if you aren’t already a rabid fan, listen up and change your mind.

xo Amy

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Parents of small children who hear about ESS have often wondered – Hey! How do I get ME a piece of that?!

In today’s episode, I answer that question, but here’s a hint: step one is “wait several more years.”

Thanks Ryan Tennis, my WWA music guy, for sharing his tune Seventeen Years with us today.  And by the way, if you’re a musician and you have something you’d like to hear on the show, contact Ryan and he’ll see about hooking you up.

xo~Amy

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As you can see, Season Four has its own little touch of chaos…. maybe we’ll all grow to like it that way.  Or maybe someday I’ll have my shit together.   But no promises.

I do know I owe Chris Kasper a dose of thanks for letting me play his song And You Wait on today’s show.  Thanks man.

Happy listening ~ Amy

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So there you have it.

xo

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Well the good news for Tori is, she doesn’t have to choose!  She gets it all…and more!

Luckily, she thinks most of it is funny and hasn’t run out of enthusiasm for life yet.  Listeners, on the other hand, might want to be sure they’ve had a good night’s sleep before listening, or they might not make it through the whole thing*.

If you want to check out Tori’s new house, CSA and musical venue, here’s the link to her new baby, the Creekside Cultural Center.

And if you want to check out Heather Childs’s music (as advertised at the end of today’s program) click here.  Today’s song Celebrate! is on the CD “Blue Electric Storm.”

Amy

* This actually applies even more to the comment I just posted below – I cut and paste the “10 page long account” that Kara refers to in the show…. All I can say is: beware.

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And right here in the thick of the countdown, the pregnant daughter – Anna Tennis – joins us on today’s show to talk about “little bits of nothing much in particular.”

Topics covered include being (and caring for) a “highly sensitive person,” the joys and heartbreaks of marriage and divorce, the fears that Kara had of doing the wrong thing as a parent, and the delights having an awesome partner (yo Paul!).

By the time you read this, Anna might have pushed a new person out into the world.  Golll-Ly!

xo~Amy

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I think the title of this show speaks for itself… enjoy!

xo~Amy

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It would seem that the good news is no different than the bad news, and even worse is that it’s not news whatsoever: there are no simple answers.

Oh well.  Happy New Year anyway!

xo~Amy

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“… if we were to make a list of the exceptions to the “you should treat teens the way you should treat adults” rule, what would be on it? Anything?”

Excellent question – I hope the answer does it justice.

PS I mention that I was the “expert guest” on a live radio show yesterday.  If you want to listen to the recording of it, here’s a link. [oops - she gave me a broken link, stay tuned.]

Happy parenting!

(Which makes me think – golly- I should have done a show “managing the inevitable parenting aggravations of the holiday season” but I didn’t think of it until 45 seconds ago.  Well, just hold on to your hats for 350 days and I’ll get to it, I swear.  In the meantime here’s the punch line: you can’t win, so try not to try.  They’re going to get the throw ups, wake up in a bad mood, and be dissastified with their presents. Maybe some gin in the cider will help.  Happy holidays!)

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There are many places where you can learn more about unschooling, like from Wikipedia, Joyce Fetterall, Sandra Dodd, and Life Learning Magazine.  (And OH so many others.)

In case you didn’t know, I support unschoolers in a variety of ways, as you can see here.

I’m thrilled to have received a few blog comments on this episode from some famous dead people! …

“You cannot teach a person anything; you can only help him find it within himself.” -Galileo

“My grandmother wanted me to have an education, so she kept me out of school.” -Margaret Mead

“It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education.” -Albert Einstein

“Self-education is, I firmly believe, the only kind of education there is.” -Isaac Asimov

(I know they sound kinda extreme, but you can get away with that sort of thing when you’re dead.)

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Maybe I’m just lucky, maybe my kids really are freaks of nature.  Maybe most teens really are annoying and difficult, and it just so happens that my kids – and their friends – and all the other teens I’ve hung around – all just so happen to be the really rare, really awesome ones.

Or maybe adolescents actually ARE the best specimens of fresh clear humanity we got goin’ on… and maybe it would behoove us all to start seeing them  that way.

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Anyway… you get the point.

Which is not to say I’m against natural homebirths, breastfeeding on demand, co-sleeping, unschooling and baby-wearing, because I ain’t.  That stuff is the salvation of the human race, if you ask me.

But that don’t make it easy.

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